Curse

Muspellsheimr · Oct 17, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

... And I'm also fairly certain that 50% faster recharge does not mean things recharge twice as fast, but rather 1.5 times as fast.
Likewise, 33% faster recharge does not equal 1.5x recharge but rather 1.33x recharge.
That makes for a difference of 16.5% .... which honestly isn't all that much.

The game calculates it as such: the 50% faster is the base 100%, reduced by 50%, for a total of 50% - aka half the normal activation & recharge rate.

Hailey Anne · Oct 17, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Haven't tested it after the update but if the 33% reduction translates to an actual recharge time of 40 seconds for Shadow Form (as I interpreted it) then it is still possible to stay in the form indefinitely.

I have been testing this. Only way its possible is dualing now.
Cant stay in SF solo.
I could care less about the nerf for PvP but I am completly against it for PvE.
This was my alternative to 55.
I had fun farming in FoW alone and doing chest runs and stuff.

Edit: nm re-tested. it is possible atm but its only due to a glitch.
I hate to post this glitch in fear of another nerf.
Its not a new glitch or anything.
When the echoed SF ends your original SF actually jumps on the recharge by a couple seconds. so once they fix this it will not be possible anymore solo.

Bryant Again · Oct 17, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

I could care less about the nerf for PvP but I am completly against it for PvE.

Well then I don't think I can give you my sympathy. Far many more people were having their fun ruined by SF sins. Not being able to understand that is pretty upsetting.

Molock · Oct 17, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Chilblains and Paragons need to be fixed..

Hailey Anne · Oct 17, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Well then I don't think I can give you my sympathy. Far many more people were having their fun ruined by SF sins. Not being able to understand that is pretty upsetting.

I completly understand it.
My problem is that PvErs always get screwed over because too many PvPers exploit the hell out of everything.
Revert Chilbains to its original behavior and problem solved for PvP SF Sins.
Either that or just dont allow SF in PvP.

Bryant Again · Oct 17, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

I completly understand it.
My problem is that PvErs always get screwed over because too many PvPers exploit the hell out of everything.
Revert Chilbains to its original behavior and problem solved for PvP SF Sins.
Either that or just dont allow SF in PvP.

The thing with PvE is that you always know what you're up against, so you can come up with multiple ways of accomplishing the task, and numerous ways to get similar results. In PvP, less so. Being forced to bring a skill on your bar, or create a build focused around, for something that you might not run into is pretty distressing.

Ulterion · Oct 17, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molock

Chilblains and Paragons need to be fixed..

Anet's response...

Hailey Anne · Oct 17, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The thing with PvE is that you always know what you're up against, so you can come up with multiple ways of accomplishing the task, and numerous ways to get similar results. In PvP, less so. Being forced to bring a skill on your bar, or create a build focused around, for something that you might not run into is pretty distressing.

dont have to create a whole build around something. ONE person can bring ONE skill.
Also you said yourself that in PvP you never know what youre up against. So why do people spend 20-30 minutes looking for specific people with specific builds that may be owned in a minute once you get in? So really it wouldnt hurt anything to have one person bring a skill to deal with SF.
But I also wrote that they can just not allow SF in PvP. would make everyone happy.(Except the ones that exploit it, but do we really care?

)

Bryant Again · Oct 17, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

dont have to create a whole build around something. ONE person can bring ONE skill.

Yeah that's a problem. Being forced to bring a necro or having a necro secondary is not good. Having to limit your creativity because of an annoying nearly skilless nuisance would not make you happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

But I also wrote that they can just not allow SF in PvP. would make everyone happy.

Because as annoying as it is - and even though many wouldn't recommend it - the skill still has a usefulness. Only now it has a counter that doesn't involve you having to bring a relatively limited skill.

HawkofStorms · Oct 17, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Haven't tested it after the update but if the 33% reduction translates to an actual recharge time of 40 seconds for Shadow Form (as I interpreted it) then it is still possible to stay in the form indefinitely.

Yeah, but it only works on ASSASSIN skills now. No more signet spikers.

Was wondering why I wasn't running into any of those.

yesitsrob · Oct 17, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

pretty sure they forgot to nerf recall

Lagg · Oct 17, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Because (Soldier's Fury) attacking 8% faster than Aggressive Refrain and not having access to Cruel Spear is the best way to deal damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

So you're saying that you think Paragons should be bad?

Well, you've exactly proven my point.

Aggressive Refrain is supposedly the only thing that makes Paragons good, and we all know that it's way too easy to keep it up permanently with no drawbacks other than the initial 25e investment, which you do pre-battle, even in PvP.

If that's the only thing that makes them good, then yes, they should be made worse.

Of course the whole profession needs a rebalance (and quite a few skills made more powerful), but that doesn't mean an obviously overpowered skill like AR shouldn't be nerfed.

There should be no such thing as a "free" IAS.

Warriors don't have a single free IAS either (Frenzy causes double damage, Flail makes you move slower, BoA burns your adrenaline, Flurry lessens your damage, etc.). Even the Warrior's Elite IAS Soldier's Stance is terrible compared to the Paragon's Elite IAS Soldier's Fury.

The only argument I could see used as an excuse for a free IAS is that Spears can never hit multiple foes.

AR needed a nerf. An elegant nerf. It got a hack job.

Just like the Rit spike skills first got that exhaustion nonsense and were then given a proper balance, I still hope AR will get a better fix. Whether simply an inherent -20 Armor penalty (which I think is also pointless) or a lessening in damage, anything will be better than applying the same condition over and over again. It's pointless and it's broken.

Either that or they'll reduce AR's duration to something silly like Hasty Refrain, in which case it will become useless to almost everyone.

I still stand by what I said: make it akin to Flurry. Heck, even give it a full 33% attack speed increase. As long as it lowers your damage, ArenaNet will fulfill its goal of not having it on every single Paragon out there.

And it will remain an excellent IAS for support Paras.

> OMG LOL SUPPORT PARAS

Which absolutely rule in PvE.

> OMG LOL PVE

I rest my case.

Mork from Ork · Oct 17, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

Edit: nm re-tested. it is possible atm but its only due to a glitch.
I hate to post this glitch in fear of another nerf.
Its not a new glitch or anything.
When the echoed SF ends your original SF actually jumps on the recharge by a couple seconds. so once they fix this it will not be possible anymore solo.

That's a glitch on the graphic only. Mathematically DP should give SF a 40.2 second recharge. I timed it and that is exactly what it does. I don't know why the jump is there visually but id doesn't actually alter the function.

Hailey Anne · Oct 17, 2007, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Yeah that's a problem. Being forced to bring a necro or having a necro secondary is not good. Having to limit your creativity because of an annoying nearly skilless nuisance would not make you happy.

Half the things people bring into pvp arent all that good. Because you never know what behind door number 1.
and you wouldnt have to limit anything. Alot of poeple bring a necro or necro second anyways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Because as annoying as it is - and even though many wouldn't recommend it - the skill still has a usefulness. Only now it has a counter that doesn't involve you having to bring a relatively limited skill.

The counter is for PvPers only Screws over PvErs. this is my problem.
PvErs should NOT have to suffer PvPers exploitations. If Deadly Paradox was nerfed because of PvPers then nerf the PvPers not the rest of us.

unienaule · Oct 17, 2007, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Pay more careful attention to my maths.
If recharge on a skill is 10 seconds, in a perfect world (this perfect world is where they make special friction-less physics rope, for those interested) you would activate it 10 times in 100 seconds.

Now, say you were using old-school DP, which cut the recharge by 50%.

Your recharge is now 5 seconds.

100 divided by 5 is 20.

20 divided by 10 is 2, which is 200%, which means you are doing twice as much damage.

Run speed is completely different, there is no dividing of recharge times going on. Attack speed, however, works the same way, when you get a 33% attack speed boost, you do 50% more attacks in the same amount of time. If you were attacking once per second, at once per .66 seconds you attack 15 times in 10 seconds instead of 10.

Bryant Again · Oct 18, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

Half the things people bring into pvp arent all that good. Because you never know what behind door number 1.
and you wouldnt have to limit anything. Alot of poeple bring a necro or necro second anyways.

Do you not think it strange that the only and most reliable counter by far to the SF build was only one skill? I think when you say "all you need to do is bring this one skill", then I think there's a problem with the build in question.

And just because some people do it (bring a necro/n secondary) doesn't mean that *everyone* should have to do it. Guild Wars is all about openness, be it in builds and otherwise. When you're forced to bring a profession for only one skill that combats only one build, then I think there's a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

The counter is for PvPers only Screws over PvErs. this is my problem.
PvErs should NOT have to suffer PvPers exploitations. If Deadly Paradox was nerfed because of PvPers then nerf the PvPers not the rest of us.

This is the beauty of PvE - numerous roads to the same destination. Can't make money because X is nerfed? Then go the route of Y.

moriz · Oct 18, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

If Deadly Paradox was nerfed because of PvPers then nerf the PvPers not the rest of us.

what an idiot. how can you nerf people? do you actually take a baseball bat, put a "nerfbat" sticker on it, and beat people with it? if so, then i volunteer to be the beater.

Yichi · Oct 18, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

The counter is for PvPers only Screws over PvErs. this is my problem.
PvErs should NOT have to suffer PvPers exploitations. If Deadly Paradox was nerfed because of PvPers then nerf the PvPers not the rest of us.

and idiotic running/farming builds that asshats bring into PvP thinking they are invincible and just grief everyone else is ok simply for the fact that they work fine in PvE?

Im ever so glad you have nothing to do with any form of skill or game updates in this game.

Hailey Anne · Oct 18, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

what an idiot. how can you nerf people? do you actually take a baseball bat, put a "nerfbat" sticker on it, and beat people with it? if so, then i volunteers to be the beater.

Lol dont take things so literally.
When I say nerf PvPers I mean seperate the 2.
As in pvp only nerfs or something like that.
So sorry you take things so literally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Do you not think it strange that the only and most reliable counter by far to the SF build was only one skill? I think when you say "all you need to do is bring this one skill", then I think there's a problem with the build in question.

And just because some people do it (bring a necro/n secondary) doesn't mean that *everyone* should have to do it. Guild Wars is all about openness, be it in builds and otherwise. When you're forced to bring a profession for only one skill that combats only one build, then I think there's a problem.

This is the beauty of PvE - numerous roads to the same destination. Can't make money because X is nerfed? Then go the route of Y.

I do go route Y. Its not that I cant come up with new ways of doing something.I have MANY ways of accomplishing the same thing.
But not all are as fun for me.
Why should I have to have less fun because of exploiters in PvP?
Answer I shouldnt.
I really think that they should seperate the nerfs. They have PvE only skills they can make PvP only nerfs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

and idiotic running/farming builds that asshats bring into PvP thinking they are invincible and just grief everyone else is ok simply for the fact that they work fine in PvE?

Im ever so glad you have nothing to do with any form of skill or game updates in this game.

I did not say that this was ok in PvP not even once. Read ALL the posts before commenting.
Im saying nerf it for PVPERS NOT PVERS. can you read that now?
As in seperate nerfs. Like they have PvE only skills make PvP only nerfs.
Or dont allow certain skills in PvP. ie griefing builds.
I dont like this in PvP either Im glad to see it get nerfed for PvP but leave it alone in PvE.
but seriously read all posts thoroughly before you go and comment.

But really it doesnt matter anyways because its not completely nerfed its just a little more challenging which is fine with me.

placebo overdose · Oct 18, 2007, 01:03 AM // 01:03

hailey anne im terribly afraid that you have a mental syndrome of being a dumb@$$. please use logic when trying to outwit someone and don't give all pvers such a bad rep.
as for the updates paragons are either too good or too bad i think they need a drastic change and create a balance among their skills. the other skills much needed and chilibians is still useless sooo... yeahah